We need to reform the rules due to the new update. Either we allow diamond swords, which act as iron swords pre-update, or keep iron swords and thus have longer battles. We must figure something to do with enchantments (probably forbid them entirely) Also we must decide what to do with potions.

In addition it is not clear that when a sanctioned battle is requested and accepted if it must take place within the three day timeframe. The condition for accepting should be planning out a time not to exceed one week after the request for a sanctioned battle.

Sanctioned battles also should be regulated in terms of their location. The first battle should be in a neutral unprepared battlefield. The second could be chosen in a clear area, each side could be given half an hour to prepare forts, or perhaps if the winning party agrees form the previous battle the battle could take place in the losing party's pre-built fort or outlying village. The third battlefield should be chosen by the loser of the two previous battles and can include their capitol or stronghold.

We could also have official battle/politics/war moderators whose word is law concerning politics, in order to prevent people from appealing to admins and other mods in cases where they don't get their way

I request that excessive griefing during a war isnt punished anywhere as heavily as regular griefing. I feel that the destruction of stuctures should be tolerated more, while keeping in mind the possibility of a mod rolling back the damage after all. I think this will lead to more butthurt and more wars so everyone can remove kebab from premises. On another note I think it should be mentioned that flying or cheating during battle can result in a fast permanent ban from the server. Many battles have been ruined by flying, its time to stop this. t. areteee

The former is already the case. Things like the bombing of Shako's coronation on Oceania, or the recent Enderian attack on Karak Khaldun would be punishable by permaban if an apolitical player inflicted such damage on another apolitical player. The parties involved all being nations, though, they're just banned for a couple of days because they overdid it and exceeded the bounds of the rules of engagement.
I agree that flying should be punished more harshly though. t. P.P.A.

This is actually the case, so I agree with you and PPA here. There are still many aspects you have to mind - for example, by judging the actions and attitude of the player. It makes a difference if somebody was overly aggressive or just butthurt. Someone appealing to a really unclear and misleading supposed war declaration or agreement is plainly considered a warmonger, at least by me. — Enton 2014/01/30 23:04

Moderators who are not Political Officers interfering with battles is a bit problematic. There should probably be guidelines about this. — hino 2014/01/29 00:59

Whether they specialize in the decision of the political regulations of the server or not, a moderator's job is to uphold the law of the server. Position of moderator is executive, not legislative, like the politiburo. I suppose that makes places like this judicial, then right? ~Darynu

That is not the issue. The issue is when a moderator flies around, teleports people to fall to their death, teleport allies into battle, teleports opponents out of battle, and bans their opponents from the battle. There should be stiff penalties for a moderator abusing their powers during war, especially if they are not specialized in handling political matters or a political officer. If players are to receive harsher punishments for cheating during a battle, why would a moderator be exempt? — hino 2014/01/29 09:57

The issue comes when a battle becomes a violation of server rules. If someone is violating the rules of engagement, then that is when a moderator can step in and help, ban, and teleport the victims back to get their belongings (though i didn't think enton was teleporting anyone, but i may be wrong.) Otherwise, I agree that it is wrong for a moderator to interfere in a battle, such as what happened rather often on Oceania. I was never saying that they would be exempt from breaking rules, only that they should exact proper punishment upon those who break rules. ~Darynu

It's outrageous and preposterous that someone even dares to mention this kind of mod abuse in the context of my actions. If it's really intended to be an implicit (and also obviously false) accusation, it definitely won't help you.
Also, I did nothing wrong by handling this, since it's the job of mods to deal with griefing. Still, I'd like political officers to take a more active role in such cases - which actually wasn't even a problem because they simply weren't on. — Enton 2014/01/30 23:03

That is not the case. You were an active participant in the battle. Despite claiming it was not a war, you attempted to eat your cake and have it, too. Not only did you only ban your opponents while refusing to take action against palin, damages were only rolled back for one side. Additionally, you accused us of bombing our own sugar plant. During the battle, palin somehow managed to instantly move to the other side of the map when had set his Home to the battlefield and Work to his mountain in the savannah. There is only one way he could have reached this destination so quickly and that is teleportation.



If the instance was not a war, why was Shakomatic's mountain instantly reverted while the sugar plant you stopped by remained as it was for days? If the instance was not war, why would we have been permanently banned while palin was not? Why would Enton have rolled back palin's TNT block placement, but not the TNT damage?
The explanation is quite obvious. Enton was an active participant for Shako's side. — hino 2014/01/31 01:03

Palin didn't even come back after these events, so it doesn't make much sense to ban him for a short time for somewhat sensitive, but still minor and perfectly proportional damage (since you already had striked first at that point).
Concerning the rest of your post: Do you have any idea how pathetic your comment is? I don't think I need to go into detail here. Accusing me of helping one side WHILE I WASN'T EVEN IN THE GAME during this phase is even worse than me assuming that you damaged your own building. By the way, check your fixed ban. — Enton 2014/01/31 01:57

“still minor and perfectly proportional damage”? I thought this wasn't a war. Now it is one? How can it be a war and not a war? Redstone machines are major compared to a mountain of dirt and cobble.
“WHILE I WASN'T EVEN IN THE GAME”? How would he have instantly reached our city? Are you suggesting another moderator teleported palin?
You have refused to take action against one side and attempted to hide evidence of palin's actions. What would be the point of rolling back palin's TNT block placement other than to manipulate logblock so it says unspecified action? — hino 2014/01/31 02:02

There was a rule that mods who take part in the battles have their mod powers removed. Hinoarashi: report such cases every time and please don't be afraid saying who did that. I think if any mod do such thing he should be removed from staff. — Rosenmann 2014/01/29 11:55

Is there a good way to contact you or another political officer? — hino 2014/01/31 02:08

I lurk wiki often, so you can leave any messages in my discussion page, sometimes I am available on IRC. I don't know when other political officers are on. — Rosenmann 2014/01/31 16:06

I'll give it a try, but it's pretty difficult when bans are tripled for reporting it. — hino 2014/01/31 23:14

Enton was not here during the battle, which precludes him directly assisting any side. From my standpoint, the Enderian assault let up after a while without any kind of mod intervention, and there were comments in chat during the battle that suggested the factory had been bombed already. Assuming palin did it, he could not have gotten any mod help since none were on. Accusing Enton of participating in the battle is preposterous. What happened with the rollbacks is another matter entirely which should be seriously looked into, as it could be an instance of mod bias. Whether this is worth stripping a mod of his powers is up to the staff, I guess. — tefal 2014/01/31 11:00

Except that I didn't roll back anything. PPA took care the battlefield the next day, while I fixed most of the sugar factory a couple of days later. Hino's posts here and in the chat easily pass as libel, while the more she says, the more ridiculous the accusations are. I don't even have to prove anything, as I did nothing wrong, but I cannot let this go on.
I'm going to move her posts (and my replies) somewhere else, as they mostly don't contribute anything to this discussion about the rules of engagement itself. Actually, they aren't constructive at all and mostly meant to damage my reputation without any reason. — Enton 2014/01/31 14:46

Evidence isn't libel. I have the chat logs in question if you want to continue lying. You can feel free to hide evidence, but it will remain in the history.

Enton
hino: do you want to request a longer ban or why do you keep talking shit?

By the way, why did you triple the length of a 10 day ban to 30 days for bringing light of this to the Politbüro?
I would also like to add you were never named but admitted to it and you were the one who messaged me about it on #int. Take the libel claim and blow it our your ass. t. Duke Nukem — hino 2014/01/31 23:10

No, you weren't banned for 10, but for 30 days for the griefing, some speedhacking and also this page and the chat logs - which back me up, obviously. I'm really thinking about extending it further, since you are ignorant and not willing to face facts (hence the wiki ban).
By the way, you're twisting facts again, as I already said that I knew about the TNT Palin placed in the furnace room. Considering that the TNT placement wasn't logged properly, it was just difficult since I also checked if it might have been dropped from a large height or something like this. My stupid TNT-related accusations can be attributed to my confusion, as I really expected this case to be obvious at first, with Palin having placed TNT. I didn't see the “unspecified action” (until you posted screenshots here) because there is basically no way to look it up and I didn't expect such a bug to happen. Then, I gave up and moved on to checking your damage, which got you banned in the end.
Of course I have nothing to fear because I did nothing wrong and already gave a pretty clear description of what happened. You're just hoping that you can make someone believe your lies, so even though I can prove the opposite and the Politbüro supports it, some people will keep believing it simply because “they heard of it”. I'm just making sure this strategy will get you nowhere, so it can still remain in the page history for documentation purposes just like other offtopic or provocation.
Even your hint that I had admitted it is outrageous and just wrong. At first, I didn't feel that I had to comment on this, since all these accusations about “some mod abuse” obviously have nothing to do with any of my actions. On the other hand, it was still heavily implied by you, which is proven by the chat logs and indicated by Darynu's comment here.
In this case, it's rather a proof of you making things up just to fit your point of view, as there are no facts that could be used against me. By the way, somebody please copy her what I wrote here, as wiki bans unfortunately also affect reading rights. I did this because somebody that ignorant really doesn't deserve even more opportunities to spread lies. — Enton 2014/02/01 01:33

I guess you'll still try to use this against me, even though I made the things pretty clear.

By the way, there MIGHT BE a reason to be butthurt, since it's probably be more fun to play Minecraft instead of discussing this. Either way, blame yourself, not the person who dealt with this. It would have been much easier for me not to give a fuck at all, which is definitely the worse option. — Enton 2014/01/31 14:51

I am strongly against the use of weapons of mass destruction (magma/withers) on settlements and see it as a crime against autism upon which the rest of the server - apoliticals included - should have the right to team up against the perpetrators, but it is true that this kind of thing fuels passionate and spectacular wars, which can be fun. If the will of the server is to allow total, unrestricted, settlement-destroying warfare, there must be one or two rules. For one thing, it should be explicitly declared and mutually agreed upon. Otherwise, the nation with the most withers will eventually come to dominate everybody else, which is a clear impediment to high-level autism, and mods will spend most of their time rolling back the mess made by people derping around with withers. Or they won't, and countless works will be griefed beyond repair. — tefal 2014/01/29 16:30

First of all the bans Enton issued were legitimate since 3 fucking withers are by no means minor damaging of defensive structures. If you want to blame someone, blame the people responsible for these rules. Also if he didnt rollback anything I dont see the problem. I think its more likely palin used a fly hack to get to the farm if he had truly set his work and home at the mountain. The rollback itself is quite controversial, since shako got to keep the loot of 3 withers, got his enemies banned, recieved no punishment at all and even got rewarded for it. Also withers definitely are a sign of massive autism, it takes several hours to farm enough skulls for a single wither IF you have a looting 3 sword. It can easily take up to 10 hours to farm 3 skulls without a looting III sword. Whats somewhat problematic about this case is the declaration of war. I feel like it should have been issued in the wiki and more directly, all I saw was some indirect muttering. Regarding the proposal of negotioating wither usage, the side with disadvantage will always reject so I dont feel like this is a good solution. I personally like spontaneous destruction with withers but feel like there should be rollback options if the damage is higher than the rules permit, which was apparently the case. — areteee 2014/01/31 19:16